DN NA Class

Here's a link to the new site that has the pre-registered sailors for the North American regatta.

https://ice.idniyra.org/racing/registration/North_American_DN_Championship/Registered

We've got 50.  37 off the web, 13 mailed in..

The late-fee is waved for the Europeans, so they don't usually pre-register.

If you are probably going to be competing in the regatta, you can still register on the site, and just select COD, or Check.  The amount will be $120.00 and you can pay it just like when you show up at registration, and we can delete the order if you do not show up at registration.  This way we will be able to plan that you maybe participating.    I'll close down the online registration a few days before the regatta.

Europeans can register too, right now, we will just go in and update the price after you put in the order, just select COD, or CHECK.

thanks to everybody that pre-registered!
jim

Thanks Jim!

I should make sure to mention.. NO REFUNDS!

You can sign up now, and then pay the Registration Fee at registration.

The organizers will take into account the fact that you have not paid and are just a registered member.

You can still pre-pay the $120.00, there is just not that much of an incentive, because there are no refunds.

thanks,
jim

Can the governing committee or the race committee please explain why we need the $60 late fee?   Please no spin because I have done a few of these regattas over the years and no excuse makes sense.  Again, the numbers are way down and we still want to hit up the membership for 2x the registration.  Thanks for dropping it back down from last years unknown increase.

Just make late registrants exempt from the free shirts or whatever is given away. Lets boost registration instead !

Unfortunately it's in the By-Laws (https://ice.idniyra.org/Yearbook/IDNIYRA_ByLaws)...  :(

I agree a change that would allow the regatta-organizer to plan expenses (ex. give-aways) and give late-registrants the best opportunity to participate would be desirable.

I think the late fee is in place to have an incentive to pre-register.  Otherwise why would anybody pre-register?  Preregistration allows the organization to have funds available to manage the regatta.

We know there are funds available for all the initial expenses.  Funds are not needed in advance.  I covered the NA's a few years back with Central funds until we got entries.  I openly violated the bylaws by allowing late registrants and picked up about 11 sailors that would have otherwise not have entered. (And we did registration with 2 people)  One person was upset with me that I did not adhere to the by-laws.  Really?  I know I'll hear the arguement that its such a small portion of the total cost to sail but its an unnecessary money grab.  Just cut these late registrants out of the give aways.

BTW.  I have received 9 emails or texts in support of my comments.  I'm know there are many others that agree and didn't comment.  I urge the membership to support me in a   by-law change.

Forgot one important point.   Can the regatta organizers ask for funds in advance from the governing committee?  Trophies and shirts would be about $1200.  We know that the entry now hovers around 90 sailors for NA's and add 30 for the Worlds.  This is helpful for those without regional funds available.  We do have the money...right?

It is not as grim as it appears.  The by laws provide for fee breaks for newbies and also when the site is moved. 

90 boats - not impressive.

Am I the only one who recalls 183 boats at the Worlds and NAs in 1993?     We're doing something wrong, and I don't think it's the fee structure.

...sneaky scribe

It would be easy to change the fee structure.  I'm always for making the by-laws easier to follow and implement.

Just remove most of  https://ice.idniyra.org/Yearbook/IDNIYRA_ByLaws#Regattas.B.4.a
Someone can make a motion to change it to this:
    The regatta is open to any member of the Association who has paid all current dues.

and for everyone's consideration.. the numbers from the last few years..

The numbers go up and down a lot.  sneaky scribe reports 183 competitors in 1993, but only 64 by 1996 (moved from Detroit to Burlington, every year has it's own unique situations)

Number of Participants in Continental Regattas in NA Since 1996

and there is a graph attached..

Year    NA      Worlds
----    --      ------
2011    --      118
2010    68      
2009    99      118
2008    100     
2007    110     125
2006    85      
2005    76      121
2004    108     
2003    114     127
2002    90      
2001    96      122
2000    47      
1999    122     142
1998    84      
1997    118     99
1996    64      

I feel that the local DN fleets are strong, growing, and attracting new members. Our stumbling point is the ranking regattas.  The problem - which is the case also in softwater regattas is how increasingly difficult it is to pull off mid-weed race formats.  Our format is unique for us in that it gives flexibility to move locations or adjust the time of the regatta (within that week) to allow for weather changes.  Many people simply cannot afford, or dont have enough time off to do this sort of thing. 

I dont see how we can pull off any major changes to the format without hurting the international aspect of the competition.  The old format with week long+ postponements would cause the participation to drop off sharply as time went on. 

I hope maybe someone has ideas... short of any new ideas (marketing ideas?), the next move is monetary.  How many additional sailors will waiving the late fee net us?  How much additional hardship will this put on our race committee?  With numbers dwindling, lack of participation may create larger financial headaches than the extra sailors would.   Whatever the case may be - I feel that we should do all we can to increase participation to 150 sailors. 

I'd vote for that!

I can't see a downside.
At worst, the organizer could specify a 2X late-fee in the NOR; they are just not mandated to do so.

Instead of taking the late registration completely out of the picture, just make the registration deadline later in the year.  Maybe 3 weeks before the event.  Revise to something like this:

"The regatta is open to any member of the Association who has paid all current dues and who has mailed an entry form with entry fee 3 weeks prior the the event.   Late registration at two times the normal fee will be accepted up to one day before the regatta. Current members who have not sailed in a continental regatta for three or more years are not required to pay the late registration penalty."

This would put the registration deadline this year from Jan 14 to Feb 6 for instance.  Giving a much bigger window for sailors to decide and also still getting the funds for Shirts, Trophies, etc.

This may open the window for younger sailors like myself who cannot justify spending $60 for a regatta we don't know that we will be able to attend due to work, family, finances  ,etc. 

I guess you don't see my pretty graph unless you are logged in..

If there is no late fee, why would anyone preregister ever?

Regatta entry fee is a very small part of the cost of attending a regatta.  Think about it.  Figure 6-8 days of vacation. Average comute to the NA's has been about 1000 miles each way ~400$ in gas, 8 days of hotels, eating out for 8+ days.  Most of the time, you know well in advance that you are going so pay early reg.  This year I don't know if I can make the NA's so  I did not preregister and am happy to pay the penalty. 

I don't see the fuss. 

Sail Fast,
Eric  US 5193

Maybe this will work better:
(https://ice.idniyra.org/sites/default/files/images/IDNIYRA-participants.jpg)

Agreed... regatta fees are a relatively small part of the expenses.  HOWEVER you have to hook the potential participants.  Dont give them an excuse.  There is a littany of crazy stuff your buddies will come up with for excuses.  (the dog, the wife, the children, the parents, the car broke down, cant miss Glee....)
Example:  Western Challenge regatta.  Cost FREE.  How many toledoans piled into a Van?  6.  we divided the cost of diesel 6 ways and shared rooms.  on a 14 hour trip that wasnt too bad.  Even splurged for an evening at the Ballet.  :P
Month later:  Western Regional Regatta. Cost $30.  How many toledoans?  Just me.  I drove up to Detroit and split van and hotel with 3 others.  same 14 hour trip.  More money.  :(
Whats this have to do with the entry fee?  Maybe not much.  But here is my point:
Ask someone to do a regatta for $0-$60.  They jump in with both feet, whip out the credit card and enjoy the weekend or week with their buds.  :D
Ask the same guy to do a regatta with you for $120 and he automatically starts crunching figures into his head... fuel, hotel, paternity suits... etc.  Whats his answer?  Get my drift?  :-\
The final cost has little to do with it. Its all about suckering.... er convincing them that this is the best thing they can do with their time and money.

First of all, thank you Jim, Geoff and everyone else for your input and keeping an open mind. Well, most of you.

Numbers are way down and what are we doing to fix it?  Current pay structure is ok.  $60 for a NA and about $25 for a regional.  These prices allow costs to be covered and puts extra $$ away for race equipment, RC expenses and the unexpected costs. Agree.

The newbie price structure is there to set the hook.  My guess is about 1 in 5 of these newbies from either regional or continental regattas will be seen again.  I didn't expect that when we put those changes in place. Still a good thing.

Our local fleet in Toledo is growing.  Our club averages about 1 new member every week between December and March. Over half of these new members have a DN.  We drag new guys to the Centrals every year but when we mention the NA's and the commitment required they turn sour.  In the 60's thru the 80's people didn't work as much as they do now. Work week went from 40 hours to considerably more.

The North American Regatta has become something a bit larger than a regional regatta and smaller than it used to be.  Its alot of work to organize and almost as much to attend for the entire week.  This regatta needs to be simplified.  Lets take notes from the Western Challenge.  What are they doing to get all those boats? First Ice?  No entry or trophies?  Relaxed format? 3 day weekend regatta?  Lets think outside the box and forget the by-laws.  At this rate we'll have the best organizational by-laws and no sailors!

Loose the late fee forever. Register online and in person - cut off the online registration 2 days before.  Whatever it takes to make it customer friendly.  If you feel the need to toss an extra $60 bucks around, give it to your local charity instead.

I have to agree with rpotova.I think because the unique format (set date ,variable location) that doubling the existing registration fee is a little much.Certainly should be able to find some comprimise.
In terms of attracting more racers,I believe like a lot of classes this is a major concern.Again the circumstances involving the DN class are unique.First of all you need to get sailors then you need to convince them to race.This is a huge task even in any one design fleet.Combine that with equipment variables and it magnifies the problem.It is like asking someone who just learned how to sail to race in an A-Cat fleet.Most people that race have some competitive nature to them,and certainly think they can and are improving.The DN is a very tough class to measure skill improvement while racing.
I have mentioned this before the One Design Symposium is a very usefull weekend of all different One Design Classes sharing there ideas on attracting and promoting there Class.

  In the last two years I prepaid two NA'S and a Gold Cup. Through no fault of my own I didn't get to sail any of them. The only thing that bothers me is when a event like last years NA is cancelled, you're screwed. Why not that the money spent for prizes out of the fee and credit the rest to the following years event. In the future if I decide to attend a regatta I will pay when I get there, I'm tired of gambling and losing, and to be honest I will be less likely to attend because of the late fee.

That's another topic that few have touched.  Where is our partial refund for last years na s that didn't happen?   Mother natures fault 100%.  Rained out baseball games offer rain checks.  Does this sort of thing happen elsewhere?

I too paid for the 2011 GC and NA.   Was pleased to at least receive an NA T shirt.
I assume the regatta chairman still had expenses to cover, even though there was no racing.  He had the race committee on site, he had prizes to award.  The phone bills pile up.  Expenses don't stop just because racing is cancelled.

A preferred solution should be to allow the regatta to be postponed a couple of weeks.  That is what happened in 2005 when the GC went from Oshkosh to Madison.  The NAs were postponed a couple of weeks and we enjoyed a top notch regatta at Elk Lake. 

..sneaky scribe

The  iceboat club I belong to has hosted the Fun Regatta for at least 15 years and we have had up to 60 boats attending. We were also very involved in the 2009  Gold Cup on Torch Lake and have helped out on several  Centrals. I feel I have a pretty good understanding of how regattas are run.  There seems to a lot of different feelings about fees and if I were King, this is what I would do.  First I would do away with the prizes. They are nice but I come to race and would rather have lower fees. The hosting region could have a nice one size fits all hat and sell them to the participants, they'd go like hot cakes. One of the reasons for the preregistration is to get sizes and to get a feel for the size of the fleet.  Let's face it, the Gold Cup is going to get about 120 entrants and the NA's about 80-100. The fixed cost for travel, race committee etc. really doesn't change much whether you have 50 sailors or 100 sailors.

My next change would be to have those preregistering pay half the entry fee early with the balance due at sign in. That way if the regatta isn't held, the money spent would be covered but the participants would get a bit of a break. For those not prepaying, hit them with a $20 penalty (easy to make change). Most people would still prepay but this way if someone's plans changed and they could make it, or if the race just showed up in your back yard, you wouldn't have to pay $120  or more to partake in about 5 races.

I like a scheduled week for the races. The Gold Cup has to have a definite time frame since folks come in from Europe. It also makes sense for the NA's. However if we get a scenario like last year, I would let the NA's, never the Gold Cup, float to the first weekend that it could be held and run it like a regional regattas. Sign in would be Friday night and Saturday morning, you'd have a quick skippers meeting, and then go racing. If you are worried about stickers, don't sweat sail numbers, just put a serial on each set and assign them to individual skippers.

This is what I'd do if I were King.

The changing dates thing for the NA's does not work for me at all.  I like the fixed week format much better.

Cheers,
Eric US 5193

If I were King:

I'd make a 400 acre refrigerated surface with a fleet of Zambonis and never have to worry about the dates or location.

Of course I would also change the rules about adultery, but that is a bit off topic.

If I were King.....

And yes, $120 bucks is a bit steep.  Before I read the rules carefully and realized that as a newbie I could race for another years' dues I had decided not to do the NA's because of a combination of cost and time.  Now that I realize that I can just show up and race, I am much more likely to make a long drive for the regatta.  Again, as a newbie I really don't need yo go to the NA's, I have no illusions about my placement, but I like the vibe of a big regatta and I learn more, faster at one. 

I really do not know about what it costs to stage a race like the NA's.  I know there are expenses and I am very willing to help foot the bill.  I am not sure why it would cost so much more if I do not commit early.

I'm just learning about all this, but I am more likely to show up if it is less expensive.  Just one man's thoughts, and worth what you paid for them.

If the NA’s are cancelled or if you end up paying a late fee just think of the 60 dollars as a contribution to the greatest sailing organization in the world and you will never have a problem justifying the expenditure.

Bloom us5432

Sounds like a better idea to me