DN NA Class

I would like take a minute to comment on the increased entry fee and 1/1/11 entry deadline. I am speaking on my behalf and not the Central Region.

We can't loose sight on the fact that racing participation in the DN fleet is still on the decline with more skippers retiring to Florida than beginners joining the fleet. Although the entry increase seems minimal, it will do nothing to increase the size of the Silver qualifier race.  I was also hoping that we could permanently make the entry deadline for North America and World events  1/15 to get ourselves away from the holiday $$ rush.

We as a fleet progressed in getting new IDNIYRA members on the starting line free of charge.  My research tells me that about half of the unranked, first time racers would not show up and pay for the event anyway so the rest of those skippers or about 50% are lost revenue. Not a big deal. Thats a marketing costs that I feel is well spent.

At a time where the economy is still on shaky ground and a number of skippers are just getting back on their feet financially (including me), I feel that is bad timing for a price increase of any kind.  My conversations at the Gull Lake Swap Meet clearly confirms this. 

Please consider repealing this increase and put the entry back to $60 for the Worlds.

Regards,
Rich

Well, as long as others are commenting, I guess I'll throw something into the mix.
I believe it is not the amount of the fees that is discouraging attendance.  I believe the Class made a mistake when it moved away from weekend regattas.   Anyone who is employed surely is reluctant to take a week's vacation to attend a regatta.  Much better to leave work early on Friday, drive to the regatta site, sail Saturday and Sunday and be back at the work place on Monday morning.  Even if  Monday is a race makeup day, the sailor can be back at work on Tuesday.  And those who are between jobs cannot afford a long event. 

When I first raced a DN in the late 1950's there were 85 boats at the Invitationals on Lake St. Clair and Cass Lake.  I would leave Wisconsin late Friday afternoon, drive ten hours to Lake St. Clair (pre-I-94 days), race and start driving home mid afternoon on Sunday, and, with the time change,  be in bed before midnight. 

...Jane

I believe that is something that is hurting a lot of the weekend warrior classes.Three day events seem to max. out most sailors time and money.This is an argument I have had with the Hobie class which insists on Week long Nationals.Typically after the third day the places do not change much.The top 20 guys are going to be there if it is a two week long event,I think you lose the bottom half of the fleet.
The other end of the argument is most people do not want to travel too far for a two or three day event.

Having a shorter worlds or NA’s does not make sense to me. 
 How many times has it taken 5-7 days just to get in the min # of races to be an event?   A 3 day event does not allow for a change of venue at all.
Second, It often takes 15-30 hours each way to get to an event.  Thunder bay was 1600 miles away, in the winter, pulling a trailer.   I want to be there and sailing a day ahead of time, so for a Saturday-Sunday- Monday  regatta, I am traveling Wed and Thursday, and driving home Tuesday and Wednesday.  Now I have blown 6 days of vacation. 
Sure every once and a while the event will only be 5 hours each way from my house and I could do it without taking any vacation. 
Worse yet, because there was no way to change venues with a 3 day event, it would get postponed multiple times.  I have to schedule vacation days ahead of time.  I can’t decide on a wed evening to take  5 days off to drive to MN and race.   I can’t cancel my vacation schedule the day I am supposed to take off and tell my boss, maybe I will take next week off, or it could be the week after that, or the week after that.  What about competitors from Europe who have to make air travel reservations way in advance?
 I like the system we have now.

By the way, I went to plenty  of Hobie and Nacra and Acat events.  Never once did we have to change lakes or pack up ½ way through the regatta and move to a different state/ country.   I never had to call in to the hotline to find the tiger Conti’s were moved from Texas to Rhode Island. 

We hashed this all out at the meeting when we changed the NA’s to the week-long format. It made sense then and makes sense now.

I think this year I want to drive east for the worlds for a change of pace.  I am hoping for Nova Scotia.    ;D

Sail fast,
Take Chances
Eric

I think my point may have been missed in the origional message.  I was hoping more folks would have been upset with a $25 increase in the Worlds dues.  Perhaps people are a bit reluctant to speak up?  Maybe most are fine with the 42% increase in Worlds entry fees?

This was not intended to be a jab at the race organizers. I trust that it will be a great event. I also know its a thankless job that requires tons of work. But the dual event with dual entry fee should be enough $$ to offset any unknowns in the budget without an increase.  I simply want you to take another look at it.

See you on the ice if I'm still welcome,
Rich

Rich,
I think in the grand scheme of things, 25$ more for the race is not a problem for most people.  Gas alone often costs me hundreds of dollars.   Heck by the time I get back from most Na's, I need a 54$ oil change.  In my mind the race fee is such a small part of the total expense of attending a worlds, it is not a big deal.  It is 1/33 the price of a new sail.  It is also  cheaper then the north americans for any other class I have ever sailed in.

Cheers,
Eric

I agree with Rich on this one that it is not time to increase the cost the regatta if the goal is to grow and promote the class.  While there may be other factors at work keeping some from sailing big events change needs to be considered to keep the average class members age from continuing to increase.  While the week long format may be popular with class stalwarts it does not work well with those starting their careers.  Just a thought from one of the few people in the US fleet under 30. 

Rob Linden
US5174

   I plan to preregister for the NA'S and take the  $35 hit on Gold Cup. In the last 11 years due to job conflicts, injuries and no passport, I left my prepay on the table 4 times. $60 is bad enough, $145 is pushing things for me.

 :-\
I think we need to figure out what we are getting for the money and SELL the regatta. 
For example, if there is a Banquet INCLUDED in the price, I think that would certainly offset the cost of a dinner that we would otherwise be buying somewhere, whether it is at a Mc Donalds, or a Brown Derby.
We could also look at giveaway items, such as a jacket, shirt, or duffel bag those are nice items, but not really that important in the big picture of just trying to get people to come to the regatta, or come back next year.
I just want to say that I am absolutley opposed to raising dues, fees or anything of that sort when the association is not in any danger of encountering financial problems.  Having a passive "its just a small part of the overall cost of the trip" attitude seems rediculous to me.  My employment status has changed recently and dont think that I wont be watching every penny all winter long trying my darndest to make sure I dont miss any good sailing. 

In short I want the organizers to sell this regatta to us as potentially the best one ever, not the most expensive!

And in the end I hope we all look at the results and figure out if it was money and effort well spent.

I would agree with Rich and others about the fee increase.
I think in view of the economy  Im sure more than a couple of members trying to find money for entry
fees , travel etc.
If you have a job its a recession if your out of work its a depression.
How about a survey in the bulletin board asking member for a simple vote 
1 keep fees same as last year                             yes   or no
 2 suspend the late registration for 2011 regattas   yes or no
my vote yes for both

Bob Rast Dn1313

Gentlemen:
The regatta committee has budget requirements to be met.  That is the criteria for the establishment of the entry fees.   Unlike the federal government, the committee is unable to print more money to balance the budget.  Dipping into the Class funds is not fair to the members who do not attend regattas and belong to the Class merely to support the Class.    Those who participate in the championships are obligated to pay fees adequate to meet all expenses of a well managed event.   This season the sailing conditions will be outstanding.  Enjoy!

DN 805
 

The answers I am hearing to justify an fee increase sounds like our government leadership prior to 11/2/10.  It is very easy to manage anything with an abundance of money and raising dues and fees now is negative growth for the class.  I have an example:

TIYC has become a hotbed of young iceboating talent over the years and myself and others have continually invited these kids (highschool and college age) along to attend and experience the Regional and Continental regattas.  Of course they complain about their equipment costs but the dues and fees are always an issue with them.  They question what they get for the $$.   I explain to them the costs involved in running a regatta and they get it - but adding $25 can be the breaking point to their decision.   There is no reason these 15 to 25 years olds should be home scrub racing amonst themselves on Maumee Bay during the NA's and Worlds - as our class gets smaller and older.

We as a class need to show fiscal responsibility no matter how wealthy or how challenged we are.  I do not want us to loose out on one more prospective member.  Members from previous writings have already suggested plans to possibility skip the Worlds.  This isn't good.

Just like our Federal gov't there becomes a tipping point where enough is enough.  I see the the same thing happening in our sport.  I look back to the time when the real race of runners, mast, high tech whatever started and see a steady decline of numbers in our fleets.  Adding it all up ,although each item individually is not great in the end the total is out of hand.  The top sailors were still at the top w/ Alum. masts and Sarns runners and I had just as much fun then as I do now(albiet cheaper).  The further we get away from a true one design, I personally feel, that the class will continue to dwindle.  I know all the comments of how our current rules allow every size skipper to be competitve in all conditions but we need to look at what is really keeping the newbies out.  We have reached the tipping point and we need to take a hard look at how to fix it!
Bill Condon DN4099 (past commodore)

Being a new comer I have to some what agree with the above post.On Buying a boat and joining the class I was quite supprised (and a little disappointed) to find out the DN is not true One Design class.Both of the other classes I compete in (Laser and Hobie) are both SMOD classes.This for my liking is the way to go,but again what do I know I have only owned the DN for 6 mths and extremly excited to get out and compete. 

I will just say that I trust our people in the Great Western Region to make the best call.  In this day and age it is natural and expected that dues increases will (and should) raise eyebrows.  Anything greater than a 10 percent hike deserves scrutiny unless the commitee can (and probably will) outline specific budget issues and changes.

The more I participate in the big regattas, the less I care about the giveaways (t-shirts, bags, etc.)  and the more I wish for our class to stay strong and keeps its participation up.  The fun and friendship is worth every penny to me.  But like every "leisure activity" there is a limit for each of us what we can/will spend.  Honestly, I am not at that limit, yet (other factors such as gasoline are pushing it), but back when I was an unranked sailor, I would certainly be blowing off a regatta with such a high entry fee.  This is the key issue here.  If we get those guys in on their first regatta, we stand a good chance they are hooked for life.  But we gotta get them in first!

This discussion (see the thread" DN Race participation Barriers")  is not anything new to me as I get ready for my 6th season of particiaption in the NA's (or worlds on the odd years).  Its been discussed in our vehicles driving to the ice, at dinner with sailors from other regions, and at most of our annual meetings.
I hope we can all have a thoughtfull discussion on this topic that can be brought to this years meeting at the NA's/Gold Cup this winter.  Keep in mind there is years of decisions made for good reasons that brought us to where we are at today.  We need to figure out what is working, and what else could work better.

It is true that Iceboats are not smod’s.  Then again if they were, no one could build their own boat.  Ask yourself this, what is the competitive weight for a H 16 crew?  How about a Laser?  Smods typecasts ideal skipper weights in a very narrow range.  Dn’s have competitive skippers in the gold fleet ranging from ~130 lbs to 275 lbs.   that is pretty cool.  The second thing is that the DN today is very different then the DN of 1936.  Think about it, Inserts, bendy masts, much lighter boats all sprung from this evolution.  
There are obviously plusses and minuses to this.  The one thing I would point out is that the evolution in the class is very slow.  Post 1980 Hulls and planks stay competitive for 20+ years if treated properly.   Masts are long lived if not abused.  I am still racing a 2003 vintage mast.  Runners  last forever if you don’t crash them.  A 20 year old insert that was built well and sharpened properly is still a great runner.  
Mostly I think this class has it right.

cheers,
Eric

Very good point about SMOD classes,yes both those classes listed are very weight sensitive,which I as I am finding out the DN class is not.

Hey guys: 

I am stuck here.  I have to present a balanced budget, no excess for class, no funds from the class.

We have certain known expenses:  Trophies, give-aways, forms, printing, etc.

We have certain known things to pay for, but the exact cost is unknown:  Expenses for the RC folks who are only there to let the race happen, cost for port-a-potties, bridges or misc stuff, cost of local support.  Costs vary widely from MN to Montreal and everywhere in the middle.

We have revenue that is unknown:  Price per registrant times how many?

I have the last Euro and US worlds to compare to.  The Euro worlds was much more expensive, the last US worlds ran short (cost more than revenues).

The late fees are mandatory for the NA and not for the Worlds, so I discounted the late fee for the worlds.  All the pre-notice advice from my local committee and from the executive committee was to produce a world-class event.  Budget was approved.  Fees then fixed.

The price increase is roughly $5/day.  Not huge, but not negligible.  The budget and return costs will be visible to everyone at the annual argument.  I am reluctant to go further in this forum, but if you want more details, click on my name at the top left, and send me an e-mail. I am happy to discuss in a more private forum or in person.

Yeah, I retired from the Navy.  Heaven help me if I am imposing arbitrary fees or imposing "taxes" without guidance or justification. 

Ken