DN NA Class

Guests & Members Post & Read => Open Forum => Topic started by: ERIC ANDERSON on November 10, 2010, 03:34:17 PM



Title: What are the Barriers to participation in iceboat racing?
Post by: ERIC ANDERSON on November 10, 2010, 03:34:17 PM
 What are the Barriers to participation in  iceboat racing.
So start with the assumptions.  We like racing iceboats, and we want to convince more people that they should race iceboats also.  Maybe we can have a good discussion about what are the barriers to racing iceboats, both locally and Nationally.
Just to set the stage, I will talk about New England, because that is where I live. 
In New England the heart of iceboating is the NEIYA.   We have about 220 members.  Of those 220, on average 12-15 of them race locally.  Right here we are down to 6% of the iceboaters will race locally.
Of the 6% who race locally, about 2/3  will go to a worlds or NA’s if it is close,1/3-1/4 if it is far away. 
Right away you see trends emerge

So What are the possible barriers to local participation?
Suitable ice 
Time and effort  to participate
Cost
Travel time
Equipment preparation time and skills
Stigma and negative perception
Apathy in general
fitness

The core group of racers is quite spread out geographically here. Travel time for local events is usually 2-4 hours or so (not such a big deal to me, but many will not travel.)
Costs? You bet.  I don’t sail as much as I want and don’t have all the gear I would like.  I often make gear decisions based on cost.  That is life.   It is true in every class of boats I have ever raced.  Racing iceboats is not cheap.  It is however  cheaper then almost every other class I have raced in though. 
 To combat cost and complexity issues, we tried to institute a plate runner and non composite mast fleet for racing locally to generate interest.  It did not.  We also tried designating one race per year as plate runners only.  No additional racers.  We tried one set of runners per regatta, no difference.
Effort is a big one.  If you want to race, it takes time and effort.   You have to build stuff, tune stuff, sharpen stuff.  It takes time and effort.  The more stuff you have the more time it takes to keep it up.
 
In our areas most people are cruisers.  I think that most people who see iceboating are swayed to cruise not race because that is what MOST people they meet do. 


What are the barriers to  big event participation? 
 Time and effort to participate (Lack if vacation time)
Travel time
Cost
Equipment prep time and skills
Mostly the same as competing at local regattas. Except the expenses of travel and vacation time come into play.  The reality is that driving 3000 miles round trip for a regatta is not something most people will do.  I don’t know how to change that.  In the DN class, at least  you have regional events for those that are unwilling to travel the distance.  Some years you get lucky and don’t have to drive too far.  Heck in 2003, I only had to drive 4 hours to the WC. 
In most classes I have sailed in, only a small segment of the racers actually go to travel or away regattas.  Iceboating is no different.  The numbers get very small when you start talking about traveling overseas to regattas.  Most people just won’t do it. 

Vacation time is a biggie.  Racing boats takes time.   Iceboat regattas take time.  One of the frustrating things about iceboat racing is that big events chew up a lot of time.  This is hard on everybody. The logistics of it stink.  You have to call the event on Wed evening  so people have time to travel.  No matter where you hold it, someone is driving 30 hours to get there.  On average, most years it takes 4 days to get enough races in to have an reasonable event.   About ½ the time you have to switch venues, this usually costs a day.   If you go to a 3 day regatta, like what  the NA’s used to be in the non WC/ NA’s years.  You still have to call the regatta on Tuesday or wed to allow 2 days drive time.  Since you don’t know where it is going to be, you still have to reserve  2 vacation days off for travel,  You get there and there is a 50/50 chance there will be enough races in by Monday for a regatta.  You still have to drive home and often can’t make it back by the next morning so you miss one day on Tuesday.  About ½ the time the regatta will have to be canceled because the are not enough races, or the regatta will be extended so you loose another vacation day.     That is if you don’t have to change venues.
I realize this is a crazy proposition, this is a crazy sport.

Gear
Thinking more long term I can see modifying the class rules to eliminate some of the gear necessary to be competitive .  To be honest, I think it is the perception, not the reality that is the issue.  When I first started, I looked out at the sea of runners and sails, etc the top guys carried and was overwhelmed.    I talked to Ron Sherry one time about it and he gave me great advice about what I really needed.    The first time I made the gold fleet, I owned 3 inserts and 3  sarns plates.   Untill you are at the pointy end of the gold fleet, it is rarely equipment that holds people back.  When I look back at the last 12 major events, I sailed either 3/16” inserts, 26” plates, and a few times ¼” inserts.   

All this is just my person’s opinion. 
Cheers,
Eric US 5193


Title: DN race participation barriers
Post by: RANDY ROGOSKI on November 11, 2010, 04:30:18 AM
Eric,

Thank you for your comprehensive and thoughtful post regarding barriers to participation in DN iceboat racing. You covered many significant issues.

Lack of control of ice conditions also is a significant barrier; this would be a huge sport if sufficient quality and quantity of ice was always at the appointed time and place.

Frustration and disappointment happen when great ice is ruined before the big event; it happens when we want ice to be were it is not.

More than cost, time, money and effort, the reason you are in this sport and reading this post is because you can handle the frustration.

You can accept the time, effort and expense of showing up and getting screwed by the weather; that's the price of being there when the planets line up and the DN racing conditions are glorious.

Randy Rogoski
DN US 4192


Title: Re: What are the Barriers to participation in iceboat racing?
Post by: Ken Smith on November 13, 2010, 08:41:29 PM
Compared to the land sailors, the DN class is rigid and evolves at a glacially slow pace.  There, there are a few one-design classes with rules as complex as the DN, a few box-rule classes (like the DN, but with fewer rules), two rigid one-designs with laser-like rules, and a set of "open" classes where the only rule is the sail area.  The other classes can sail "open," too.   A big advantage is that the land sailing venues are reliable, mostly, save excess or lack of wind (a one-or-two day problem, and a once in a decade or so rain event that ruins that lake (others are a few hundred miles away).  Guess what.  Participation is down.

Other ice boat classes have more open rules than the DN (skeeter classes); more rigid rules than the DN (Nite, renegade).  Guess what? Participation is down.

The catamarans most active classes are box-rule classes (length, beam and sail area).  The Hobies are one-design, but there are how many Hobie classes now?  Guess what?  Participation is down.

Soft water classes, someone else need comment, I stopped participating.

But the DN:  Evolved into a narrow range of parameters that means almost anyone can reliably get the equipment and keep using it and stay pretty competitive.  New or used: get a post 1980 hull; a Sherry, Kent, Rast, or other developed composite mast; and a wide range sail (FO1) and a flat sail (ABSS, JD Speed, or 1-D equivalent); plus three 3/8 insert and one pair of plates for snow, and you can make gold fleet.  Every year several people drop out and sell their whole program for $1800 or less.  A bargain!  A boat can be competitive with 30 year old hardware.  Mast steps don't get moved much.  Boom blocks do.  Shrouds usually need to be adjusted.  All the fancy stuff just makes these adjustments easier.  Pins and screws work fine, but take longer to install and adjust.  If your new-used boat doesn't perform, tuning by a skilled sailor gets you 90% there.  Some wood chips or glass and glue re-tunes the key component in a night or two of work. 

Go find ANYTHING you can go out and compete with for such a price.  Not bicycles, boats, motorcycles, go-carts, autos, quads, snow machines, dog seds, greyhounds, NOTHING.

However, you must race to compete, you must tune and sharpen to compete, you have to learn how to sail these boats, just like any class.  Not easy or fast; no short cuts.

Where are the competitors, especially the new competitors?  Not out in the shop, busy driving, or out sailing.  Too many other fun alternatives, in their opinion. 

Sorry, I believe we are best served by staying the same, providing open racing for members, and scheduling as much racing as we can.  Come join us, help the new guys, have a blast.  The cruisers, local hot-shots that don't travel, and the occasional racer all are participating.  Welcome.  If you want to sail with the best and really learn the class, join us at a regional or national or international event.  Its all open to you.