DN NA Class

Guests & Members Post & Read => Racing and Rules discussions => Topic started by: Ken Smith on October 23, 2008, 09:01:17 PM

Title: New Proposal 11, Reduced entry fees
Post by: Ken Smith on October 23, 2008, 09:01:17 PM
Oh how I wish the proposal had stopped at 4)a).  Local sailors with a regatta at home get to sail without the penalty.  A GREAT thing.

I have several problems voting yes to 4)b).  Novice entries.  The wording is too vague, and the logic is flawed as a result.  I pity sorting this out at registration!

"Novice DN racers may enter ... if two years association dues are paid.  No other event registration will apply."  Novice is a person that never belonged to IDNIYRA or has a lapsed membership of five years. 

So if I join this year for the first time, and I paid after buying a boat at the swap meet in November, and I show up at the regatta in February, am I a novice?  Or only if I wander in to the regatta and decide to buy a boat and race?  What if I had some cash, so I paid two years dues at November, will anyone at teh regatta know?  Am I a novice?  So I show up and set up and race, and pay no registration?  The waiver is part of a contract, and this guy gets to enter but did not compensate the class for entry.  Is there a contract?

All issues better left alone.  Sorry, I vote no.

Ken Smith

Title: Re: New Proposal 11, Reduced entry fees
Post by: Paul Goodwin - US 46 on October 24, 2008, 06:27:58 AM
I'm with Ken on this one...

Plus, it encourages rank amateurs -- new sailors who may never have even put a DN together before -- to participate in the World and "Continental" Championships. One thing for sure, if Proposal #11 passes I'll be glad I'm not sailing in the lowest fleet (for now at least).

Title: Re: New Proposal 11, Reduced entry fees
Post by: Bob Gray on October 24, 2008, 12:13:56 PM
  I agree with both Ken and Paul. I think 4(a) is a fine Idea and 4(b) is a bad one. Why not rewrite it with just 4(a). This would also allow a brand new sailor compete for a reasonable amount.

Title: Re: New Proposal 11, Reduced entry fees
Post by: Capt Dave on November 18, 2008, 07:55:02 AM
I travel hundreds of miles, spend thousands  on gas and hotels and food. then when the race is in someones backyard we are supposed to let them race for free, cause they dont want to pay the penalty. Its not a penalty, its a discount for people that register early, so the race committee can get organized ahead of time. This is not a time for complete novices to come learn to race, its a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP REGATTA. How would either party feel if a novice T-bones a top contender. You gota pay to play

Title: Re: New Proposal 11, Reduced entry fees
Post by: RLinden on November 18, 2008, 02:36:30 PM
Capt Dave, I see your point about novices competing.  I consider my self a relative novice.  THe only collsion I saw last year at the NAs was between two top boats in the Gold fleet.  I am a college student who pursues sailing the DN fairly heavily, however cannot take a week or more off to travel to the East Coast to race.  Many times the location changes at the last minute and the financial and time commitment become somewhat less and I may consider going.  For me it is a financial decision, pay 60 dollars and I may not be able to attend or pay 120 dollars if I can attend if it works out.  If someone else decides to race after the early entry deadline does it really cost the organizers double what someone who enters early.

If the regatta the regatta is moved to my back yard at the last minute and I wasnt able to plan months ahead to attend, and now have to pay the high fee, I would probably have to pass. 

In the past few years I have heard a call for new sailors especially younger ones to join the class and become active.  The entry fees can be very steep for someone who just spent quite alot of money on a boat they only use for a small part of the year.  We need to entice people to come sail and learn.

Since I started sailing when I was 16 I have always been the youngest or nearly the youngest person on the ice.  What percent of the US competitors are under the age of 25?  Its a pretty small amount.  Does the class want to be known as the geriatric class.  Although a do applaud those sailing into there later years.

I guess what I am getting at does the high entry fee promote racing for the class.   

DN 5174 

Title: Re: New Proposal 11, Reduced entry fees
Post by: KB [us5219] on November 18, 2008, 09:21:20 PM
I remember my first N.A.s on lake pepin 3 years ago.  I was nervous about doing my first major regatta.  My friends encouraged me and I had a great time.  I discovered it to be amongst the safest racing I had experienced.

Now I cringe when I hear people say they dont want to share the course with "newbies".  From a safety standpoint, I have to agree with them.  But from a "good of the sport" perspective we must be prepared to assume some degree of risk in order to grow the class and encourage participation. 

How many people would haphazardly spend $60 to "give it a try"?  Definitely fewer still at $120.  But even at $60 I think most beginners will stay on their own local pond, or be content to watch from the pits or ashore.

I think we have to challenge ourselves as Competetive DN Class sailors to continue the corinthian tradition that sets us apart from other classes.   We need to identify these "newbies" and step forward to help support them.  I wouldnt be planning on attending my 4th N.A.'s (and Second Worlds) if it was not for the help that so many different experienced sailors lent me over these past few years.

Title: Re: New Proposal 11, Reduced entry fees
Post by: Ken Smith on November 19, 2008, 08:09:08 PM
Whoa on here guys.  The novice sailors in the regatta are always welcome.  Heck we have the most active class based on data from Sailing Anarchy, though they fail to recognize iceboats as sailing. 

Part of the reason is because our regattas are all open.  Any registered class member can compete.  And do.  Rookies and novices sweat the rules, sail carefully, and are usually too scared to go all out.  They are more Obstacles than Hazards.  On the other hand, many old-salts (not the name, the category) are sailing very aggressively, and expecting others to avoid them.  Not good, so beware.

Most of us would agree that filing the line with locals when the regatta moves to your home town is a good thing.  Unfortunately this proposal goes further.  Administering a regatta is hard, this proposal would make it nearly impossible on registration night to sort out fees required.  And the contract issue is also important. 

I am sure a revised proposal will appear next fall.  The weighty-penalty late-registration article came in, as I recall (Jane may remember better) about twenty years ago when we had four fleets at the NAs and worlds, and had real trouble communicating by phone, snail mail, and CB radio.  We had to encourage early registrations to get teh hand-done paperwork done, and as the regatta had a bigger budget, as the give-aways got way out of hand, to get them bought. 

Times change.  We are economizing on give-aways, and are toying with electronic registration.  And we have trouble filling three fleets.  Oh yes, now we use computers, e-mail, bulletin boards, cell phones and all know each other.

Encourage participation!  You will only learn how to go fast when you sail with the best.

Oh, by the way, I am not alone in having qualified all the way from Gold fleet back to Bronze.  So I am out there helping the new guys start and round marks smartly, so they are not in my way. ;)  Bring them on!


Title: Re: New Proposal 11, Reduced entry fees
Post by: Capt Dave on December 24, 2008, 07:06:03 AM
dont forget 300,000 personal liability. sail #s on the hull sides and your responsible for replacing any boat you wrongfully destroy. so for $60 bucks less "give it a go"