Runner Limitations

[KB [us5219]]

When 6 guys travel 14+ hours together to a regatta, many topics of conversation come up.  One that is discussed without fail on most every trip is that of DN class Runners.  There have been many attempts over the years to change, or limit the runners used in D.N. Class regattas.
Here is my idea that may be discussed for proposal:

Limit the runners to 9 total runners 

#1 - 3 insert runners (can be any current legal runner between 3/16 or 1/4) Naturally, most will go with a 3/16 insert with stiffners and 18inch flat on sides, 14 inch up front.

#2 - 3 1/4 inch plate (or snow runners)

#3 - 3 Angle (slush) runners. 

What I am trying to do is maintain the DN's ability to sail in a wide range of conditions.   

What I am trying to eliminate is:
A: Large, Heavy, dangerous loads of runners packed in cars and trailers. 
B: D.N. Regattas won based upon huge quivers of pricey runners to get a small advantage.  Lets get back to sailing!
C: The big one:  Eliminate the financial hurdle as well as one of the overwhelming technical aspects of DN sailing that has made many prospective new sailors back away from competitive sailing.

Perhaps one can argue to have 2 sets of inserts (1/4 and 3/16 for a total of 4 sets of runners)  But the bottom line is that 95% of the time you can sail just fine on 3/16 runners and the addition of snow plates and angles are a fine option to make sure you dont give up a day of sailing due to imperfect conditions.

When making recomendations to a new sailor you can simply tell them: Buy a set of 3/16 inserts first.  snow runners second, and angles third.  This gives them the option of aquiring runners gradually.  (Incidentally after 8 years I am still looking for snow runners and Angles!)

Another incidental rule that would have to be added is prohibiting use of power sanders in the pits.  Stoning, hand sanding, etc. would be allowed between races.

[DN 5449]

Being a relativly new comer ,I agree whole heartedly with the proposal and points made.From my perspective it is handicap enough being a newbie DN racer without having to compete against experienced racers with a decided inventory advantage.

[KB [us5219]]

One thing that is huge for newer sailors is eliminating variables.  For example, at Ron Sherrys suggestion I went to fixed length side stays a few years ago, and it forced me to focus on what I had control of.  Eventually I was able to determine my plank was too stiff and had a new one made that was dialed in for my weight.  Eliminating variables allows you to focus on what is important.  The top ten (or 20+) sailors are beating me because they are just plain good.  The top 10 are beating each other often because of runner selections.

[DN 5449]

I agree again,very hard to tune in your boat sailing on your own.I also race the Hobie 16 and the Laser and do most of the training on my own ,but the difference with them is being true one designs there is tuning guides avaliable that will get you in the ball park.
My tuning on the DN has pretty much ran the extremes,from mast step all the way forward to all the way back ,mast raked back and forward...not sure if I am going faster or actually detuning and going slower.

[Geoff Sobering]

One simpler proposal that has been floated around is to simply limit people to 9 runners per season, with the 9 identified before the first regatta.

That fulfill your requirements for transport, but allows people the flexibility to substitute the set of runners they feel is best for them (ex. a set of 100 degree 1/4" inserts instead of slush-runners).

Cheers,

Geoff S.

[rpotcova]

If your going to propose this I think that one exciting solution is when each sailor pays his or her yearly dues they need to declare their 9 runners for all regattas for the season.  That way its documented and displayed for the class to see.  But lets not limit the current legal runners - just bring your selected 9 to a regatta.  Substitutions somehow need to be controlled.

[Bob Gray]

How about 10 runners. That way could have an insert and a plate steering runner and 4 other pairs.

[DN 805]

The guy who does not pay dues until he arrives at the North Americans gets to use 50 runners?
How about fewer sails.  One per regatta?  One new every two years?  How about one mast per season?
There's no end to it.
We've been on this merrygoround many times before.
Forget it!
Let's go sailing.

[Bob Gray]

amen

[US4824]

I Second that! Have seven day of sailing so far this fall. Who's in for this weekend?

[KB [us5219]]

Great I want to just go sailing too.  But in 8 years I have befreinded many a sailor who is either no longer with us, or just getting a little too old to get out there as much as they would like to.  Our local club has many newer sailors that will never make the jump to sailing in the NA's or Gold cup because it is out of their grasp(I would still be one of them if it wasnt for my brother in law).  They see lots of equipment, time off, fuel, hotel, and double-fees should the regatta land in their own backyard.  I am frustrated with the fact that our class discusses but never takes proactive steps toward improving our outreach to new sailors.  FACT:  every hobby has lots more competion than they used to.  Our class started in the late 40's and enjoyed great growth.  Now there are several types of downhill skiing, snowboarding, kitesailing with skis or skates, snowmobiling, 4 wheeling, etc.   that compete for attention and participants.
No the runner rule wont solve our problems, but I think it is a major step toward making our class more attractive to new ice sailors.  I would bet my beloved pair of T-runners that the people who most oppose this have a $#^% load of runners already!

[DN5358]

I really don't see the problem with the newby racing in the bronze or silver fleet.  Plenty of excitement even on plates.  The excuse that it is keeping them from sailing is just that.  The boat and runners are still one of the least expensive parts of our nomadic sport.  Travel and travel time is the true barrier to entry.

And I will second Bob's Amen.  Someone please find some local central region ice!

[KB [us5219]]

So if I get this correct - people are saying that they dont mind lugging lots of extra runners around that they almost never use?  My travel program often involves traveling in groups of 4-6 in one vehicle +trailer.  We sometimes bunk 4 to a room - its not comfortable, but believe it or not some people are into saving money while doing this rediculous sport.

Again, where this subject looses traction is amongst those who have acquired or built their own runners over the years.   Or how about the European community, some of whom are state sponsored?
I have attended meetings over the last 7-8 years and listened with interest what the association wants to do to attract and keep new sailors.  The subject matter has been mostly avoided or ignored the last few years.

Meanwhile, I will sail every chance I get!  I am worried about the dozen or so sailors that we work on every year at our club.  We have a few that took the bait, (3 in the last 3 years +possibly one new one who was hooked at lake christina) but if we dont take a close look at the rest of them, to see what is going on - we may be missing a big opportunity.

[DN 5449]

KB is hitting the nail on the head with each post.I am one of the newbies who falls into the catagory of wanting to race and be competitive.Yes I am not that naive to think that experience is a big factor but I am finding it difficult to justify going to race when I am at an equipment disadvantage.
The class from my perspective is definitly an arms race.Agian there is nothing wrong with that if it is a thriving class like the A-cat,but when attracting new racers is a problem then the problem needs to be addressed.

[DN 805]

When consideration is given to regulating the size and quantity of allowed equipment, it is worthwhile keeping in mind that the tolerances allowed in DN specifications and the rules that specify the quantity of equipment actually made competition more fair than you will find in a one design class like the Laser. 

In a Laser all the equipment is the same.  The variable is the size of the skipper.  Light folks are at a disadvantage in heavy winds, heavy folks are at a disadvantage in light winds.   Tight one design rules do not necessarily equate to fair competition.

But in the DN class little guys and big guys compete evenly in all conditions because DN specs and equipment rules allow the sailor to customize the boat to meet his personal requirements.  Examples: A big guy sailing on soft ice is at a disadvantage if he is forced to use short runners.  The little guy is at a disadvantage if he is forced to use a full sail in a 20 mph wind.  A tall guy needs a longer cockpit.  A fat guy needs a wider cockpit.  A guy who is forced to select 36" inserts before he gets to the starting line may be at a disadvantage if the first couple of days of racing are postponed and then on the third day there is a 4" snow cover on the ice. 

After a sailor spends his vacation time and money to attend a regatta that may go on for several days, it can be extremely disappointing to realize you did not bring with you equipment that will allow you to get around the course on race day, let alone be competitive.   

DN specs and rules have evolved over the years in a way that makes the DN  versatile in handling varied conditions.  This why DN enthusiasts love to race this little boat and year after year work to improve their equipment and their sailing skills.  This is part of the challenge of DN racing.  Once you've reached the front of the fleet, you can be proud that your effort has paid off.  Then you keep working because there is always someone nipping at your heels.

Of course we can't overlook the fact that DN sailors are great to hang out with.