National letters on sails and side panels.

[DN 805]

DN class members in North America have never voted to require the assignment  or the display of national letters on DN sails nor on side panels.

Commodore John Harper has done a historical review of the issue of national letters and in an email to the officers (I received a copy) dated December 29, 2008, came to the conclusion that members in North America have been assigned sail numbers, following a consecutive numbering system that covers both US and Canada.
 In North America no national letters have been officially designated.   A member who has displayed US, KC, or CAN on his sail has done so as a personal decision.
 
  In Europe members have been assigned sail numbers that included national letters and each national fleet has its own consecutive numbering.

The Commodore concluded, therefore, when numbers appear on a sail or hull side panel without national letters, it can be assumed that it is owned by a North American member.

I assume that members may continue,as a personal decision, to display US, KC, or CAN.

I do not have national letters on my sail and I have applied the number to my side panels but no national letters.   I do not consider myself as member of  a national fleet.  I consider myself a member of the DN community and I guess because I have only sailed in North America,  I might expand that to consider myself a member of the North American DN fleet.

regards
Jane Pegel

[ROBERT RAST]

Ihave looked for the new rule and it is not easy to locate on either web site. Could someone from the tech commitee please post on the forum so  members can comply by next regatta. Putting them on on the ice might not work as well as a warm shop.

Letter width ? height, Placement , colors? Font?

Thanks Jane for clarification on country letters , 2 less I have to put over newly Varnished sides.

[DN 805]

Hi Bob
I actually cried after I put those darn numbers over the varnished side panels that I have nurtured with thorough sanding and a fresh coat at the end of each season.

Back to shoveling snow, only 12" off the driveway this weekend.

..Jane

[4695]

DN class members in North America have never voted to require the assignment  or the display of national letters on DN sails nor on side panels.

Commodore John Harper has done a historical review of the issue of national letters and in an email to the officers (I received a copy) dated December 29, 2008, came to the conclusion that members in North America have been assigned sail numbers, following a consecutive numbering system that covers both US and Canada.
 In North America no national letters have been officially designated.   A member who has displayed US, KC, or CAN on his sail has done so as a personal decision.
 
  In Europe members have been assigned sail numbers that included national letters and each national fleet has its own consecutive numbering.

The Commodore concluded, therefore, when numbers appear on a sail or hull side panel without national letters, it can be assumed that it is owned by a North American member.

I assume that members may continue,as a personal decision, to display US, KC, or CAN.

I do not have national letters on my sail and I have applied the number to my side panels but no national letters.   I do not consider myself as member of  a national fleet.  I consider myself a member of the DN community and I guess because I have only sailed in North America,  I might expand that to consider myself a member of the North American DN fleet.

regards
Jane Pegel

Well said Jane.

4695

[Paul Goodwin - US 46]

Jane has obvious sentiments involved in this issue.  Fot the record, I voted no on this proposal, I don't think it will add significantly to the abilityto identify boats, and I like the look of my barbished hull.

However, it was voted on, and passed with a solid majority, well over the 2/3 required, so obviously my opinion was in the minority.  It might also make an easier job for the scorers trying to keep track of boats at the mark roundings.  If you don't believe how hard readiing the sail numbers can be, I suggest you stand out there and get a feel for the job the scorers have, better yet offer to help.

Jane is correct that NA sailors never voted on National letters, but I will be putting them on my boat.  Heck, if I have to put the numbers on, what's two more letters.  Firstly, I'm proud to sail for the North American team, and secondly I think it will be one more step towards helping the scorers.

To answer Bob's questions, first let me say the Technical Committee is discussing the issue, and will need to put out an Interpretation to make things more clear.  But let me comment on the issue - some things that people (like Bob) have been asking are really very clear, others not so clear.  Also, I took a look around and Bob is right about not finding the new Specifications anywhere, I will try to correct that today.

Breaking down the new letter/number Spec:
--- New hull side lettering ---

• 1) "National letter and Sail number shall be affixed to each side of the fuselage"
  Lettering shall be put on both hullsides - obvious. 
  
  
• 2) "below the mast stepping point"
  This is less obvious.  I think placing the lettering anywhere below the level of the top deck will be ok, keeping it close to the mast step (near the front of the cockpit) is a good idea, especially since thepointis to make it easy to read.
  
  You've already read Jane's take on the National letters, and Commodore Harper's comments.  Me - I'm putting National Letters on my boat.  The letters are not specified by the IDNYRA, but I'm putting "US" on my boat.
  
  
• 3) "Color shall contrast with the fuselage":
  Pretty obvious, the color of the lettering must contrast with the color of your hull.  Again, the idea is to make it easy to read.
  
  
• 4) "each letter and number shall be a minimum of 5.5 inches (140 mm) high"
  Lettering height, obvious again, they must be at least 5.5" (140 mm). 
  
  
• 5) " and 0.7874 inches (20 mm) wide"
  Less obvious until you think about it, the "stroke width" (the width of the lines making up the letters) must be at least 0.7874" (20 mm) wide.
  
  

Now for what isn't written...

• Font - The font is optional.  Please stick with block capital letters, not too much slant, and avoid anything too fancy, like script fonts.  The idea is to make it easy to read.
  
  
• Lettering width - The width of the letter will be determined by the height of the font you choose.
  
  

Paul Goodwin
Chairman IDNIYRA Technical Committee
 

[dn4379]

   Just after Christmas I recieved a history lesson from the member who was Commodore in 1973 when the first Gold Cup was held.  I asked him when national letters started appearing on the sails and he told me the following story.  I will quote him as acurately as I can.
    "When we began traveling to Europe and the Europeans started traveling here there were problems because of duplicate sail numbers.  For example, there was a German DN 60, a Polish DN 60, a Danish one and then myself as DN 60.  This caused confusion for the scorers.  We decided to make them put country codes on the sails for the upcoming Gold Cup (world championbship) and that is the way it has been ever since."
   To me this means that "national letters" on the sails are expected standard policy and have been since 1973.  Because it is expected standard and practiced policy in NA and manditory in Europe, the wording of the new specification is appropriate.  The problem, if there is one, is that the relevant paragraphs in the Constitution, By-Laws and previously Specifications do/did not refer to a "letter" as being part of a member's number/sail number.  In other words the requirement for a national letter was never written into any IDNIYRA official documents; not in 1972 or since.  Because it is not written, the mandotory application of a national letter for a North American member of IDNIYRA is not technically enforceable at this time.  My "official" position is that the absence of a "nationl letter" implies that the boat is being sailed by a NA member of IDNIYRA.  Personally, I don,t give a give a hoot other than I like seeing all the different country codes on the sails; it's cool. Should we dispense with the National Anthums at the opening ceremonies?  Same logic to me.  The US shall remain on my sail; on my hull I'm not so sure, 4379 is long enough without two letters in front of it. 
   I am not confident that this new specification will help, but time will tell.  The members have the ability to dispense with this specification if they want to.  For now, keep scouting for ice, especially in the host East region.  I've always wanted to sail on salt ice, maybe this is the year.
                                           Thinkin ice and still looking for members to step up to officer positions,
                                                John  Harper      US4379

[DN4287]

At the present time is there a listing of the correct National Letters?  What is and has been displayed on sails and hulls does not agree with the ISAF Rule Book.  Since we have now gone this far it would be nice to see a National Letters listing with only one listing per country, i.e., either KC or CAN for Canada and not both.  And with that it would be great (for scorers) if the location of the Country Code and Sail Number were standardized on the Sail Plan (as well as the size and spacing of the letters and numbers).  For us older and eyesight challenged scorers it can be tough to read numbers as the light fades and standardizing location size and spacing will go a long way to reducing errors.

Something like DN on top Panel, National Letters (2 or greater) on next panel, Sail Number on 3rd panel down - a single National letter maybe on the Sail number panel as long as not more than 5 letter/numbers are on the panel.  Spacing between the National Letter and Sail Number shall be twice the spacing between numbers or letters.  Either 10" by 2" (7" wide) or 12" by 2"  (8" wide) letter/number.  The Sail Lofts can better specify this as to their standard size letter/number.  Maybe a discussion for the general meeting.

John Atkins
DN4287

[DN 805]

The IDNIYRA has no affiliation with ISAF.  Many, but not all,  of the European national letter designators in the DN class correspond to the old IYRU national designators.  In the IDNIYRA year book the membership listing indicates the letters assigned to various European members.  I again emphasize that in North America the membership has never approved the concept of national designators, sailors have displayed them on boats and sails solely on their own discretion, no official designation exists nor is required.    The Commodore has reviewed this issue and made an appropriate ruling.

As for the location of numbers on sails and hull:  Take a look at the European website www.icesailing.org and on the forum you will find a link to photos of a regatta held in Sweden in January, 2009. Even though DN Europe has required numbers and letters on hulls for several years,  50% of the boats in the photos have no number  or letter on the hull.  When the number and letter are displayed, the fore and aft location on the side panels varies greatly. 

The DN class has existed for more than 55 years with sail makers placing the numbers on the sail in what they consider appropriate locations.  It really isn't practical to at this time attempt to begin to require specific placement of numbers on sails.  The system has been working all these many years.  If it isn't broken, don't fix it.

Hey, it's time to go saiing.

See you on the ice.

...Jane Pegel