Sailing Speed Record -- How fast?

[Ken Smith]

The official sailing speed record, formerly 119 mph held by Bob Shumacher sailing DN sailors Bob Dill and Bob S's Iron Duck, fell this week at Ivanpah Dry Lake, on the CA/NEV border.  The British land yacht Green Bird achieved an un-offical speed record of just over 126 mph in 30-40 mph winds.  This record attempt was recorded and instrumented and will become "Official" once the instrumentation is verified and reported to FISLY.

The dirty version of our sport is played annually the last week of March, usually at this dry lake near Prim NV.  This year, the meet includes the PacRim countries that land sail.  For more information see NALSA.org, the US landsailing organization.

For more information on the British speed machine, Green Bird, see:   http://www.greenbird.co.uk/
 

 Smashing!   126mph

[sam myers 5454]

the debutante has the ICE speed record at 143mph

[Ken Smith]

Sam,

The Deb is reported to have achieved that speed.  Timed by a stop watch over an approximate distance in high wind and poor visibility and no one can identify the witnesses.  Maybe she did it. Mike believes so. Bob Dill wrote a nice study on the matter and doubts it.  I don't know.

The official record now requires distance and timing instrument verification and independent witnesses. These conditions were met by Iron Duck and by Green Bird, and others before them.

Watch the video on the green bird site.  Picture a stern-steerer  in higher wind than that with the gaff rig she sported at the time.  I am sure the boys were going very fast, but I kinda suspect there might have been a little error in the distance and/or the time recorded.  At those speeds, sail area and stability of the platform are not trivial problems.

Ken

[Bob Gray]

Ken,
   How fast do you think a modern A-skeeter bubble boat can go.  Bob

[Ken Smith]

Bob,

I don't know.  Maybe the Clapps will join in. 

The record-setting boats from Claude Lambert (1980's) on were all asymmetric, more stable on one tack than the other, some with asymmetric wing masts.  The sail area is smaller by a bunch than the E-skeeters and the platform is larger than the E-skeeters.  Some E's and E-derivatives sail at Ivanpah, but the winners in buoy racing seem to all sport taller rigs the E's.  Many have solid wings or wing masts that have more chord than the skeeter class allows.  Contrary to popular myth, there are rig rule limitations on the skeeters (roach, headboard size, cloth sail, and mast chord), but the dessert open classes have only a sail area measurement limitation.  Hence more development occurs in the dessert than on the ice.  Having a reliable venue helps, too.

No doubt the E's are the fastest things on the ice sailing as a class, but they are not the ultimate speed machines.  And the ultimate speed machines will not compete well around the buoys.  And none are as easy to transport or set up or sail in the widest range of conditions than the DN.

[RANDY ROGOSKI]

It's hard to sail an iceboat faster than 60 mph.

The Chickawaukee Ice Boat Club in Maine issues "Mile-a-minute" stickers to those who sail an iceboat faster than that.
Veteran DN sailor and "Think Ice" writer, Dr. Lloyd Roberts, keeps speed records for the CIBC and acknowledges the accomplishment.

I earned a "Mile-a-minute CIBC" sticker myself in March 2008, and was a Skeeter passenger at over 70 mph this March.

I sail with a wind meter and GPS often, especially in what I consider ideal speed conditions.
A DN rigged for speed needs mid-teens to low 20s wind on NOW refreezing ice sufficently thawed to be level.
Firm warm ice is the key to iceboat speed records. It has the least friction and the best runner grip for maximum leeward sailing speed. You also need room to sail and only a larger lake will do.

Andy Bos of the West Michigan Ice Yacht Club earned his sticker for 70.2 mph on such ice with gusts to 26 mph early one late winter morning on Muskegon Lake sailing a classic Skeeter. I was happy to be in the rumble seat with the GPS reporting speeds as we sought the best course to crank it to the max.

It was a seize the moment opportunity. That day the weather forecast was for sun, wind and mid-40s temperatures. The following day, the forecast called for more sun, 55 degrees and gusts to 35 mph. The ice failed for the season because of that day's weather.

Whether I've sailed an iceboat 60 or 70 mph, it feels like a 100 mph. You only know for sure with instruments.

If you get a day with record setting conditions, have a witness see your GPS Max Speed zeroed out, and then witness the recorded Max Speed after your breathtaking thrill ride. Write it up, you and the witness sign it, and send it to Dr. Roberts. He's in the IDNIYRA Yearbook.

[Paul Goodwin - US 46]

I don't think it's that hard to reach 60 in a modern DN well set up, or big ice.  After a day of racing at Sand Lake, MI a few of us took turns with a GPS and tried to find max speeds.  I managed just over 61 in winds in the 20-25 range.  But this was on a very small lake, less than 1/2 mile runs.

Ron Sherry and I managed 72 mph in his Nite.  I think it could have gone faster, but we were bottoming out the plank, so that was the limit.

All of these speeds were measured with a Garmin hand-held GPS, so take the actual speeds with a grain of salt.  We were getting pretty consistent speed results from run to run, so I think they were fairly accurate.  Read some of Bob dills articles to get an idea of what it takes to get a truly reliable GPS speed reading.  Hwever, there is a new class of hand-held GPS that the windsurfers are using to record speed records.  These units are very accurate, and you can download all of the actual recorded speeds to a computer and look for "outliers" - unusual spikes in the speed readings that are generally considered innacurate.  Then you can post-process to get average speeds, peak speed, etc.

[CIYOTI4148]

 :)this is great! keep up the information!Ken,Paul,I am always interested in this chatter,along with all ice reports in NA,its May,THINK ICE!

[Jeff B]

there is a new class of hand-held GPS that the windsurfers are using to record speed records.  These units are very accurate, and you can download all of the actual recorded speeds to a computer and look for "outliers" - unusual spikes in the speed readings that are generally considered innacurate.  Then you can post-process to get average speeds, peak speed, etc.

YES! There is a new website which launched last January where you can post your ice sailing GPS speeds. (I hope I am not violating any BB rules with this promotional plug, I am not affiliated)

http://www.gps-icesailing.com/

Read up on how to enroll, its free, but site encourages Goldmember support.
You can use many types of GPS units, but you need the required software to analyze the data and upload to website.

http://www.manfred-fuchs.de/index.html

This software is amazing with regards to cleaning up GPS tracklogs. If nothing else it helps to understand exactly where speeds are achieved with distances, ect.
Software will link to GPS Icesailing for an auto-upload of your session!

The GPS Icesailing website was created by Windsurfers from the two popular sister sites:

http://www.gps-speedsurfing.com/
http://www.gps-kitesurfing.com/

Ice sailors of all types are encouraged to participate. You can pick your specific craft/class and get rankings for overall, or specific to your class.
Currently, the site uses your average of 5 runs, 10 sec long. This is the displayed value in the ranking order.
But you can sort the lists on rankings by top peak speed, 100 meter, 500 meter, ect.
Values are either listed as KNOTS or KM, based your display settings.
Web masters have explained to me that a new speed ranking order may be used this year.
They currently used single best 10 sec run for the windsurfing/kitesurfing sites this year.

For anyone whom wishes to be included in the Top Ten, you must have the proper GPS GT-31 device which uses doppler and is extremely accurate.

http://www.locosystech.com/product.php?zln=en&id=30

This unit is also set up to coordinate with required data fields for the GPS Icesailing site.

Contact US distributor Craig Bergh
cbergh@iw.net

So, come on by and lets see what what kinds of speeds are really possible!

Some weekends we have an international "Fastest sailor in the world" event where whomever logs fastest over the two day weekend wins!

I was logging in my DN speeds, but now have surpassed those speeds on my Freeskate!

Good Luck!

Jeff Brown
DN US-5232
Freeskate US 14