DN NA Class  

DN America Forums

April 26, 2024, 11:49:34 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Steering system slop  (Read 13990 times)
Ken Smith
ADMIN

Posts: 289


sail often, travel light


« on: January 01, 2011, 11:44:33 AM »

On the fast ice two weeks ago, I seemed squirrelly sailing down wind.  I found that some slop had developed in my steering system, so a few inches of tiller throw resulted in no motion of the steering runner and vice versa.  Bad, bad bad.  Especially in fast ice and high speed.

Slop can come in several places, in increasing order of PIA to fix:
--Loose bolts at steering rods
--Worn out ball joints in steering rods
--Worn out steering or front chock bearings (the ones glued into your hull)
--Slop in tiller head

In my case, the problem was found to be slop in the tiller head.  Like most, mine is an aluminum head held on the top of the steering rod with a shear pin, kind of a rolled metal pin, of 1/4 inch diameter.  The pin was a little bent, and the hole in the steering rod was a bit elongated.  I had assembled with epoxy three years ago, and this was apparently not effective enough.

Now, I wanted to repair in my shop with materials at hand.  What is best is a hole reamed to the diameter of a fixed pin, so there is no slop.  Problem:  No machined pins, no ream.

Solution:  A tap is a great ream.  I removed the steering rod, and re-drilled the hole in both the steering head and the steel rod for the size required to tap a 5/16 fine thread.  I then tapped the assembly for the thread, and found the tap was not quite long enough.  So I counter bored (drilled back from the untapped end) to a size 1/64 less than than 5/16 inch just to the end of the threaded portion of the head.  I then could tap from the other side into the head.

Of course, no fully threaded 5/16 x 2 inch bolts could be found, so I had to use a thread die and cut more threads into a steel 5/16 fine-threaded bolt.

On final assembly, the threads of the bolt now engage both the housing and the rod.  No slop whatsoever.  The end of the bolt, just under the head, has an interference fit with the housing.  Not technically the optimum, with threads loaded in shear, but should work great, with that steel replacing the hollow shear pin.

Tapping tip:  The tap has to be straight! I hold the assembly in a drill press and use the drill press to align the tap as I hand feed it.

Logged

Ken Smith
DN4137US
Paul Goodwin - US 46
ADMIN

Posts: 100



WWW
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2011, 11:37:23 AM »

Jan Gougeon discovered the slop issue many years ago.  He tried lots of fixes, with a monster resource at his disposal for technical fixes (the Gougeon company).  He even tried the ultimate in mechanical fixes, a tapered hole with a matching taper pin press fit into place.  All of the machanical fixes eventually came loose.

His fix - epoxy the head into place.  This did not work for Ken, however he might not have created the necessary conditions for the epoxy to work properly.  Epoxy does not bond well to steel, particularly steel that has had some oil or grease on the surface.  I've been bonding my tiller heads for years, and have never had one come loose.

Here is my method for bonding...
1) Remove the steering post and clean it really well.  Make a mark where the post sticks above the bushing.
2) Degrease the top of the tiller post and inside the tiller head.
3) Sand the top of the tiller post (the section above the busing) with coarse sandpaper, 36 grit works pretty well.  I make a cross-hatch pattern, but straight up and down the shaft works good too, maybe even better.  Sanding scratches going around the shaft don't do much good.
4) Sand the inside of the tiller head with coarse sandpaper.   You want the sanding scratches aligned up and down.  Again, scratches which are oriented 90 degrees to the shaft won't do much good.
5) Pack the tiller bushing with grease (this is your only chance).
6) Grease the tiller post and put it in the tiller bushing.
7) Degrease the top of the tiller post.  Do a good job here to remove the grease, the bond depends on it.  It won't hurt to give it one more sanding also.
Cool Mix epoxy and collodial silica to a thick paste.  Here is an application where collodial silica really pays off, it's the strongest of the epoxy fillers.
9) Smear epoxy indide the tiller head and on the tiller post.
10) Assemble the tiller head and push in the roll pin.
11) Wipe off any excess epoxy and let cure for at least 24 hours.
12) Go sailing.

The sanding and degreasing are critical steps.  The degreasing is obvious, grease is an excellent release agent.  The sanding is the real key.  Epoxy does not bond well with steel, even under ideal conditiond.  The Sarns parts have a smooth surface which does not allow the epoxy to get a mechanical grip on the surface.  The coarse sanding scratches provide the mechanical "bite" which the epoxy needs to do it's thing.
Logged

Paul Goodwin
DN US-46
MICHAEL
Class Member
*
Posts: 114


2007 Western Regions Gull Lke


« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2011, 08:43:18 PM »

Great tips guys!!
Mine has slop and has already been epoxied! How do I remove the roll pin and disassemble to try to do it right? I suspect the epoxy was just poured in from the bottom side. Doug Kolner in Wi. built the hull at least 5 years ago. I have had the hull 4 years and never pushed out the roll pin and of course never greased it!
Mike
Logged

Mike DN5369
Bob Rast DN1313
Newbie

Posts: 148



WWW
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2011, 06:26:48 AM »

Just tap the pin out with a punch or bolt of similar size the top housing should come right of.
I just fixed my steering on a second hull, I also like to put tape on deck around hole to keep epoxie off the deck and help clean up.

Bob Rast DN1313
Logged
Paul Goodwin - US 46
ADMIN

Posts: 100



WWW
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2011, 07:22:06 PM »

If the tiller head was epoxied on, and done right, taking out the roll pin will not allow you to take the head off.  You'll have to heat the head up with a propane torch.  You'll know the tiller head is hot enough when you can start to smell the epoxy - it doesn't exactly melt, it just turns kind of gummy.   I cut a hole in a piece of 1/8" plywood and slip it over the tiller head to protect the deck of the boat from the torch.  Or you can just scorch the deck plywood, which would be sure to lead to lots of retelling of the tiller head saga.

One thing to check is if the slop is in the tiller head, or between the shaft and the bushing.  If the shaft/bushing is worn out you can take bushing out and replace the whole assembly.  If you search the "collective wisdom" you'll find a bunch of info on how to remove the bushing.
Logged

Paul Goodwin
DN US-46
Ken Smith
ADMIN

Posts: 289


sail often, travel light


« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2011, 09:09:13 AM »

A torch?  Oh my.  Similar process, upside down boat, plywood heat shield, but I use a heat gun.  The part falls off when its ready.  Be careful, though, its hot....
Logged

Ken Smith
DN4137US
Geoff Sobering
Class Officer
***
Posts: 461



WWW
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2011, 05:19:39 PM »

I glued the tiller-head fitting to my tiller-post on a couple of nights ago and, with essentially brand-new ball-joints, there is no slop in my steering anymore.

I should have done this years ago!  Embarrassed
Logged

Man Why You Even Got to Do a Thing
MICHAEL
Class Member
*
Posts: 114


2007 Western Regions Gull Lke


« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2011, 08:52:04 PM »

I was able to pry off my tiller head just by pounding out the roll pin with a punch just slightly smaller than the pin. It took a little wiggleing and pulling plus a few taps with a hammer and came off perfect. It was not epoxied in as I had thought. I then polished the shaft up clean, applied some spray lithium grease with silicone I had and reassembled. I pounded in a new roll pin. Hacksawed off the excess pin. I used it at the Westerns along with a new carbon reinforced steering rod with new ends, courtesy of Ron. The steering was rock solid without adding epoxy.
Logged

Mike DN5369
RANDY ROGOSKI
Class Member
*
Posts: 79


Racing neck and neck with George Reis, March '07


« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2011, 04:23:44 AM »

My steering had become sloppy in 2008 after sailing my Composite Concepts hull hard for eight seasons.
There was considerable wear on the steering chock shaft and the through-hull bushing in the bow. Neither were slip tight and there was considerable rattle even when working them by hand.
I made a fixture per Ron Sherry's instructions to protect the wood, then used a propane torch to break the epoxy bond and remove the worn bushing. Sarns Hardware sold me a new bushing and steering chock.
I glued in a new bushing and connected the steering rod to the new chock.
My steering is good as new!

Randy Rogoski
Logged
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1 RC3 | SMF © 2001-2006, Lewis Media Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!