I've been called worse.

[DN5358]

We took a gamble this weekend after the Centrals were postponed to head up to Elk Lake and see if we could get squeeze some ice time in, with the full realization that we may spend the day around a campfire.  The gambled payed off well.  The lake healed up nicely friday night and Sat. morning found hard ice and light winds.  The old snow drifts were the smooth ticket in the morning and standing waves from earlier in the week were the rough stuff you wanted to avoid.  As the day wore on the white ice softened and was the kiss of death to your speed.  The drain holes started softening around 1:00 and we were off the ice by 2:00.  Around 3:00 a half dozen of us played in the slush with angles reaching across the lake leaving huge tracks.  The rest of the afternoon and evening were spent around the fire till around 10 when we all headed home.  What was amazing was how by 6:00 the few drain holes around the pits that we had kicked open had a 1/4" of new ice and all the slush (up to 2") was rock hard.  The full moon came out and thankfully we had no wind, else it would have been hard to keep us off the ice.  Sat. found 1-1/4" of ice in the drain holes around the pits.  Nothing on the lake was found that we could punch through.  We sailed 'till noon when the high wind chased us off the ice.

This weekend showed me again that you need to be on the ice to sail and from some of the confusion about ice reports, it showed again how we need to come up with a better system of pushing the info of possibly sailing and sailing to all iceboaters in a timely manner.

David

[DN 5449]

I agree with Davids point about ice assesment,as long as it is honest and accurate.I was burned this weekend by a irresposible ice assesment from an experinced iceboater.

[rpotcova]

We spoke quite a bit about the entire regional regatta system and what could be done to improve the system that is currently in place to call a regatta. I think Ken Smith would agree that the past few years have been difficult to be in the regatta chairman business.  My comments are in no way meant to take away or diminish any efforts that icecheckers have done in the region.  This was an extremely difficult season and a number of skippers sacrificed time and money to find regatta quality ice.  A special thanks goes out to the GTIYC for all their efforts over the past several weeks.
As a Regional Commodore in training a few years back, I was always told that in order to hold a regatta the ice needed to be located Wednesday, sailed Thursday/Friday, then if all goes well racing starts Saturday.  I would be pressured to get a regatta called by Thursday so plans can be made and the entire road show goes in to motion.  Those days are over.
I would propose that regattas be called on the ice the morning it is to tenatively start.  Using this weekend as an example, based on warm temps and deteriorating conditions Friday afternoon there was no other choice but to postpone.  It was also uncertain how much the cooler nightime temps would heal the ice and make it safe for sailing.  As it turned out, temps dropped enough at night to heal up not only the northern lakes but Houghton Lake as well.  With such a short sailing season to begin with, I think reducing the missed opportunities should be a priority. Even with a postponed event there were still plenty of folks traveling, looking for ice.

[DN 805]

It seems to me that if the  go/no-go signal is not made until race day that participation will be limited to those having a short drive to the ice site.   A significant number of sailors may have an 8 to 10 hour drive to get to the ice site.  It is worthwhile giving consideration to these sailors and they should not be required to drive all night to arrive at the site, whether it be good or bad ice conditions.  Most sailors have a budgeted amount for regatta participation and spending needlessly will not promote participation.

As for the attention given to ice checking, and particularly to the safety of the participants, a thorough sailing of the area is an important part of the process.    Even then, tragedies can happen, as occured on Lake Mendota, WI, early this season when during a race a huge pressure ridge "popped" up on new ice and boats experienced severe damage (fortunately minimal injuries to the sailors).
My saddest iceboating memories are of sailors being traumatized by ice inadequately checkedLfour race scorers under water on Anchor Bay,  Ben Hall at Grand Lake, Henry Bossett at Honeyoye. 

I encourage all to carefully check the ice, and sail it thoroughy prior to calling an event "on".

[rpotcova]

I do agree with most of your analysis.  The origional intent of the Regional Regattas were to have a championship within the region.  Eventhough we welcome all sailors from any region, I don't think we can accomodate the folks coming from 10 hours away.  Before the internet and cell phones there was alot of driving.  Now we have sailors giving ice reports from their Lazy Boy chairs based on web cams from the site.  Ice scouts can't do it all and sometimes, like you mentioned, they miss hazards.  We may need to do a final regatta call from the ice at 8am Saturday.  If its not regatta quality we move, fun sail, or wait til Sunday.

[DN 5449]

I agree with rpotcova,I could live with waiting and making the regatta call later as opposed to calling it on early witout thoroughly checking the ice,which BTW is what happened for the MN event this weekend.Apperently they relied on some guy driving by the Lake to report it as in good sailing conditions,I only found out about this after driving 8 hrs to find out it was totally unsailable.

[DN5358]

In reference to Rich's suggestion of calling regatta on.... One of the other discussion points around the campfire Saturday was for late season regatta's.  Say anything after March 1st, that the on ice regatta call could be made Saturday on the ice.  This would definitely give a little more flexibility to getting a regatta off.  Could it result in some travel time and money being spent with out sailing.  Most definitely.  But we already take that risk with wind, snow, etc.  Would it reduce participation?  Possibly.  But when compared to not having a regatta, it seems like it could be a big a nice tool to have in the Regional Commodore's "How to pull off a Regatta Tool Kit."

As our climate changes and the traditional season's get screwed with, we need to adapt.  For most skippers wanting to sail with any regularity, you have to travel.  No longer can you say I'll be doing club races this weekend out the back door.  Look at clubs like Gull Lake and Grand Traverse, both have had no local racing this year and barely any last year.  When you look back at the history and see when they would have 30 plus races in a season..... times have changed.  We need to find ways to adapt that will offer the most opportunities to all skippers.  Let's keep the idea's, suggestions and comments coming.

David

[Ken Smith]

I see Rich's points.  But as long as I am making regatta calls for the Western Region, I am going to consider it "off" unless we are sailing it Thursday.  Its a long trip from Minnesota to Wawasee, and vice verse, even if we didn't want you Michiganders, Ohioites, and Dem Nordeneers or da Easterners.

Oh, wait, I want to QUIT making these calls.  Yes California is in the western region, but I need someone closer to be making the western calls...

And one last thought, there are a bunch of ice sailors here in Primm Nevada right now.  The dry lake doesn't melt.  Having a ball sailing in the dust.

Ken

[rpotcova]

Thanks for the feedback Ken.  Hopefully more people reply and give their opinions.  This season, if I had to make a call for a regatta on Thursday it would never be close to being called. Yet we have found ourselves on decent ice the past 2 weekends because ice has shaped up Friday night/Sat. morning.
I typically work the Friday before a Regional Regatta no matter where it is then get on the road. Is calling a regatta Friday afternoon too late?

[KB [us5219]]

We all know that Spring Ice is a fickle thing.  Ice in general is.  We are used to making last minute calls/changes/postponements due to snow or other factors, but in the spring the ice can go from unsailable and unsafe to perfect overnight.  There is simply no way to call that... unless of course we get a group of people who agree that based upon weather forecasts that an upcoming weekend(which would have been last weekend?) is the Last Chance of the season.  Then all who agree to travel need to know the risk - if the ice has not been thouroughly checked or sailed.  The actual regatta might be called on or off Saturday morning (or Sunday) surely this format would not pull in as many competitors.  BUT at what point is it better to have a Regional regatta with only 20-40 competitors than say NONE AT ALL?   I hear those who went to Northern Michigan enjoyed the trip and a bonfire to a brilliant full moon.  And as a bonus they even sailed on what might have been regatta ice until the heat of the day wore it out in the early afternoon.
I guess there is always December.  Maumee Bay Could have had a Centrals on two or three weekends this past season, but that is very rare for December.

[DN 5449]

Just in case any of my above responces where misinterpreted,none of my critisism on ice checking is directed towars any IDNIYRA events.In fact both events I have attended this year the ice reporting has been very accurate and honest (thank you to all involved).I also first hand can appreciate the amount of effort that nees to go on to find suitable ice in a timely fashion.I think in the end all you can ask for is  an honest, accurate assesment of the ice as early as possible, and better to air on the side of caution as opposed to being overly enthusiastic or optimistic.

[Ayes]

To air is human to forgive divine, neither of which is outlined in the IDNIYRA Bi-Laws. ;-)

I agree with Mike, we owe a big thank you to everyone who spent their valuable time checking ice so the rest of us could just show up and sail.  It seems an injustice when the crystal ball the regatta organizers are using gets a bit cloudy and through no fault of their own get screwed by mother nature and then get blamed for a non-regatta.  As unfortunate as that is for all of us, it is part of the game we play, you pay your money and you take your chances.  Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't and all the shoulda, coulda, woulda's don't change the facts that it was an impossible catch 22 damned if you do and damned if you don't call.

 ...I would rather you just said thank you and went on your way otherwise I suggest you pick up an ice auger and scout a lake, either way I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to...

forgive the poetic license from a "few good men"

Ayes

[Bob Gray]

   There is a real problem with those of  who scout ice. All this ice checking and sailing mid week always falls to a very small group of sailors who are available to take off a day or two during the week. Quite often you have to go by yourself to check the ice which early and late in the season can get a little scarey. No one should ever sail alone on ice that is being scouted. You can't check the ice well enough by just walking. I've equiped my bike with spiked tires which allows me to check a decent amount of ice in a reasonable amout of time. It's not sailing it but you can get a pretty good overview.
    We ask a lot from our scouts so please don't be critical of them. They also spend a fair amount of money in gas checking ice. I don't have a problem checking the neighborhood ice gratis, but quite often we end up traveling 75-200 miles a day looking for ice. A friend of mine has driven between 800 and 1000 miles this winter looking for ice for both the Gold Cup and the Centrals. With gas prices well north of $3.00 a gallon he's  spent a lot of money for the sport. I think it's about time that the regional commodores start thinking about giving some sort of compensation to those who give so generously of their time and money. Maybe if they did more people would volunteer to check ice.
    If you live on the windard side of the Great Lakes, weather forecasting is fairly reliable. If you live in a lake effect state, it's a crap shoot. Calling a regatta on thursday in Wisconson might work just fine, in Micigan it's wishful thinking.  I'm with Rich.













 

[RANDY ROGOSKI]

DN racing requires accepting the risk that spending time and money in the hope of a big time can be a losing bet.
It’s frustrating to lose bet after bet, as many of us did this season.
Tony Mancini from New Jersey has driven many miles to the Midwest for regattas. He taught me this lesson for how to keep a good attitude. “Leave home not expecting to sail; be delighted when you get to.”

[Geoff Sobering]

Leave home not expecting to sail; be delighted when you get to.

Wise words!